RIYADH, 7 November — Prince Turki Al-Faisal, former director of Saudi intelligence, said he met Osama Bin Laden several times in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. He described him as an "a gentle, enthusiastic young man of few words who didn’t raise his voice while talking." He said Bin Laden was generally a "nice guy."
In the fourth part of his comprehensive interview with Arab News and MBC television network, Prince Turki was asked about the reasons behind these meetings. He said Bin Laden is the son of the late Muhammad Bin Laden, one of the most pleasing personalities who helped develop the country through his construction companies engaged in infrastructure projects. The family is still prominent and well-known all over the Kingdom.
"When jihad started in Afghanistan, I used to travel to Pakistan and sometimes to Afghanistan to follow up on the developments. It was there that I met him. Once or twice he was invited to the Saudi Embassy (in Islamabad). The first time I met him was during one of these occasions. He was in the area supporting jihad."
Prince Turki described the conversation he had with Bin Laden as "general," saying they talked "about the condition of the Mujahedeen and what he (Bin Laden) was doing to help them." He said neither Bin Laden nor he had presented the other with any demands.
He said Bin Laden’s activities were welcomed at that time but denied the man has ever enjoyed any official status. However, he did not rule out the possibility that Bin Laden may have had contacts with other Saudi officials.
On whether he expected to see this youth who was very enthusiastic about Islam tun into the person he is today, Prince Turki replied: "I did not know him thoroughly enough to judge him or expect any other thing from him. His behavior at that time left no impression that he would become what he has become."
He said the Saudi intelligence monitored Bin Laden’s activities as it did with the jihad activities in general. "As you know, at that time there were many volunteers, Saudis and non-Saudis, and he was one of them. He did not enjoy special status that made us focus on him."
Prince Turki ruled out the possibility that Bin Laden may have links with the CIA, as rumored, or with any other official American agency. "His presence in the area and his activities did not call on him to have contacts with these bodies. We had no information that he had contacts with any foreign government agencies, except the Pakistanis," he said.
He added that Bin Laden was not viewed as a source of concern during the jihad against the Soviets. "From what was heard about him from those who went to join the jihad and met him in Afghanistan and Pakistan and then returned home, there were no fears regarding his conduct."
Prince Turki said attention was focused on the Arab Afghan Mujahedeen after the withdrawal of the Soviets in 1989. "We were concerned with the return of Saudi citizens. Indeed, large numbers of Saudis returned. Attention was directed at those who stayed behind, including Bin Laden, and why they’d stayed. A number of organizations have been monitored trying to recruit these youths."
The prince said the Al-Qaeda Organization founded by Bin Laden in 1989 aimed at, according to its publications, the defense of Muslims world over against injustice. "There was no goal for this organization after the end of the jihad in Afghanistan," he commented.
The prince said Bin Laden was not the sole leader of the Afghan Arabs, who were spread out in various parties in the region. The man was in constant contact with Sheikh Abdullah Azzam, as well as with Jalaluddin Haqqani, the Afghan leader who is currently the minister of tribal affairs in the Taleban government.
Asked about Azzam, who was recognized as the most prominent Arab scholar in Peshawar in the eighties, the prince said: "I met him once in the Kingdom, twice in Pakistan. The man was a preacher. He was widely respected by Afghans and Pakistanis as well as the Arab fighters." However, the prince could not say who engineered Azzam’s assassination. Russians, some jihad factions and even Afghan Arabs who differed with him ideologically figured in the list of suspects.
In 1990, shortly before the breakout of the Kuwait war, Bin Laden returned to the Kingdom. Some of his activities did not strictly comply with the regulations. He started making public speeches without prior approval of the concerned government agencies, the prince said. He spoke at schools without the knowledge of the school authorities. When asked about such activities, Bin Laden said he was only discussing jihad and was campaigning for Afghans. "However, he did not undertake any subversive activities in the Kingdom at that time," he added.
On the question of a complaint made by Pakistani Premier Benazir Bhutto that Bin Laden stirred up the Pakistani public against her, the prince said: "I never heard of such complaints. Neither do I believe that she would care for Bin Laden’s views as much as she cared for the views of the religious scholars in that country, as some of them questioned the legitimacy of a woman becoming ruler."
The reasons why he was allowed to travel again in 1992 was that Osama was never banned from traveling and he was only required to get permission. He had tried to engage in several activities in (what was then) South Yemen during that period and he was told that he should inform officials when he wanted to leave the Kingdom.
He left the Kingdom when the Mujahedeen were at the gates of Kabul in March 1992. Since 1989, he had been striving to launch a jihad in South Yemen. He attempted to lure Yemeni youths into training camps in Afghanistan.
He also began campaigning with the tribal leaders in southern Yemen. However, the prince strongly denied that the Kingdom had supported Bin Laden’s activities. "It was not possible for the Kingdom to assign any person to undermine any government," the prince stressed. "The Kingdom’s authorities warned him against doing such things and that he should desist from such acts. His role in Afghanistan was only aid supplies and nothing more."
Prince Turki reaffirmed the continuation of Saudi Arabia’s firm policies, including the non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries. "The Kingdom will not try to topple any government or to trigger any conflict or wars in any other country. And we expect the same from other countries in their dealings with Saudi Arabia."
In August 1990, Iraq occupied Kuwait and Osama Bin Laden offered his services to fight the forces of Saddam Hussein. I asked Prince Turki about a meeting between Bin Laden and a top Saudi official and about Bin Laden’s offer to fight Saddam with a group of Arab volunteers. "It was not he (Bin Laden) alone who offered their services. Other personalities in the Arab world did the same, some with good and others with bad intentions. They wanted to show that there are Arabs capable of fighting and defeating Saddam, especially after the Kingdom took the bold decision to bring together an international alliance to flush out the Iraqi forces."
It was during this period, the prince said, that the first signs of changes in Bin Laden’s personality were becoming evident. "Firstly, he believed that he was capable of preparing an army to challenge Saddam’s forces. Secondly, he opposed the Kingdom’s decision to call friendly forces. By doing so, he disobeyed the ruler and violated the fatwa of senior Islamic scholars, who had endorsed the plan as an essential move to fight injustice and aggression."
"I saw radical changes in his personality as he changed from a calm, peaceful and gentle man interested in helping Muslims into a person who believed that he would be able to amass and command an army to liberate Kuwait. It revealed his arrogance and his haughtiness."
On the issue of foreign forces in the Kingdom, Prince Turki said: "Bin Laden does not have a strong reason to raise the issue. We remember the hue and cry created by opponents of the move. They said the foreign forces would remain and become an occupying and colonizing force that would desecrate the Two Holy Mosques. Saddam used the same idea to try and foil the efforts to drive him out of Kuwait. People with subversive ideas also said that the move was against the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), who had said that two religions could not meet in the Arabian Peninsula. I still remember, when I met a group of the so-called leaders of the Islamic work, who came to learn the Kingdom’s stand before heading to Baghdad for mediation, that they also raised the same issue.
Dr. Abdullah Al-Turki, who is now secretary-general of the Muslim World League, was present in that meeting. He explained to them that the Prophet had meant that no religion except Islam could dominate the Peninsula. The Jews and Christians were constantly coming to and leaving the region. Even after the Prophet had driven out the Jews from Madinah and Khaiber some of them remained in the Peninsula, moving from one place to another. Those who have visited the Holy Places will find that Osama’s claim was false." Prince Turki said he did not meet Bin Laden during that period. But he said he was sure that other officials might have warned Bin Laden against his activities.
In March 1992, Osama was given permission to visit Pakistan.
"He went there to work with other Islamic personalities who were trying to reconcile the Afghan Mujahedeen, who differed on the setting up of a government. I saw him among those personalities," said Prince Turki, who was then making strenuous efforts with Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to unify Mujahedeen ranks and bring them to an agreement before they entered Kabul.